In this day and age where things happen at the touch of a button, it can be so easy to overlook the value of human connections. For Eduardo Placer, the CEO and Founder of Fearless Communicators, there is power in face-to-face networking, especially at a time of screens dividing us. In this episode, he joins Michael Zipursky to share with us how he came to this realization along with the story of how he transitioned from actor to entrepreneur. Eduardo talks about how he leveraged his relationships, going out there and meeting real people who can help him. What is more, he imparts some great tips on how to build those relationships and network to grow your business. Join this conversation and learn key insights to put yourself at the top of your game.
—
In this episode, I’m very happy to have Eduardo Placer joining us. Eduardo, welcome. You are a coach, speaker, community builder, and facilitator. You’re also the CEO and Founder of Fearless Communicators, which we’re going to talk a lot more about. This is your company where you help people share their stories and amplify their voices. You’ve led workshops and spoken with groups at Google, HBO, Bank of America, and the list goes on and on with a lot of well-known brands.
I want to go back into where you got started, and what you were doing before you built this business, but I figured we’ll switch it up a bit. We have a lot of regular readers that are used to Michael asking questions like, “How did you get to where you are? What did you do before you got into consulting?” I thought, “Let’s change it up here in this episode.”
A topic that I thought we could start with is how you structured your business model. You are the Founder and CEO. You have a couple of program managers, but you also have a whole bunch of facilitators. Could you walk us through what Fearless Communicators at a business structure or business model level look like?
We’ll go a little deeper into the origin story of Fearless Communicators. There’s the business need, but there’s also the personal need as to why we show up in the world in service of people around their verbal communication skills and public speaking. If we can get very specific, I was an actor for fifteen years and got laid off for the last time. Actors always get laid off. That’s what happens. Whereas I was very cute in my mid-twenties to cater waiter and to clean toilets at the dance studio and to bartend, I got to the point in my mid-30s where I was looking at the career of a professional actor and was uninspired. I was uninspired by the work and the prospects of it.
I was gifted some insight by a dear director, colleague, and collaborator of mine. What happened is that at this last theater company, I was at a premier repertory acting company in the US, which is in Ashland, Oregon. In Canada, it’s like the Shaw Festival or the Canadian TV show Slings & Arrows. It is amazing. If anyone has ever watched Slings & Arrows, it’s an amazing TV show that talks about the politics of a repertory acting company.
I was in that, but in the US version, which is in Ashland, Oregon. I was gifted with the opportunity to produce their HIV and AIDS fundraiser, which they gave to me in year 26. The 25th year had been this big blowout and they came to me in the 26th year as a new company member and were like, “Do you want it?” I said, “Sure.” I took it from 6 events to 10, and raised 40% more than they had ever raised.
I did a film festival and partnership with a local film festival. We had all the restaurants and bars donating on specific day funds that would go to national and international HIV and AIDS charity organizations. There was a way that I was showing up in the full expression of my gifts and abilities that was very different than how I was showing up as an actor, learning your lines, knowing your blocking, executing the choreography, singing the song, etc.
The thing about being a business owner is, at the end of the day, you're accountable and responsible whether you know it or not. Click To TweetAt this theater company, it’s called Black Monday. It’s the day that you find out whether you have a job or not. There’s always like, “I may or may not get it,” and that’s a show tune from the musical A Chorus Line. “God, I hope I get it. I hope I get it.” I have an acute condition called show tinnitus where I burst out into show tunes at the drop of a hat. You got a little bit of a flavor of that at this moment.
Back at the ranch and back at the story, what this woman said to me, “You’re a very competent actor. You’re extraordinary at this other thing.” I was so ready to be in my extraordinary. There are probably a lot of readers that may be on their entrepreneurial journey, have pivoted, or be in a job. Their light isn’t fully on, and they may be lacking that courage or confidence to jump in to be in the expression of their extraordinary. Getting fired or getting laid off is a wonderful pause in the matter of stepping into that, but that’s what I was gifted with.
I was gifted with that opportunity, and then I said, “I’m ready to create something that’s a full expression of my creativity, my gifts, and my energy.” That’s when I stepped into entrepreneurship. I had been a public speaking coach as a side hustle to my acting career. I trained for the conservatory at UC, San Diego, which is one of the top MFA acting programs in the US. All the actors there teach public speaking to undergrads. I loved it. I then had it as a parallel business, befriending board members at different theater companies. I had it as a side hustle. In 2015, I made what I call LegalZoom Official and launched the business.
You launched the business at that point. You’ve given us the backstory in terms of recognizing or realizing that you have this genius, this talent, this area that you’re shining and showing up amazingly well at. I’d love to focus a little bit more on the business model or the structure. Here you are now. You have this team. Let’s work through this. How quickly did you go from it being you deciding you’re going to start this business to starting to add on team members and building it beyond yourself? How quickly did that happen?
It evolved organically and naturally, which is why I gave you the backstory of the business because I didn’t set out to be a business owner. I didn’t go to business school. I had no idea what the heck I was doing. I was an actor. I had to figure it out as I was doing it. It’s terrifying because the thing about being a business owner is at the end of the day, you’re accountable and you’re responsible whether you know it or not. That’s a lot of pressure.
In my first year in business, I did it by myself. I made $15,000 in my first year of business. Now, I have multiple six-figure businesses, but the beginning of it was very lonely. I didn’t know what I was doing, and I didn’t even qualify in the United States for Obamacare. I qualified for Medicaid. It was dark. I have an Ivy League degree in English from the University of Pennsylvania. I was like, “What?” Thank, God, for the safety net because it was there to support me.
What happened is that I always managed and held extremely positive relationships. What happened is this HIV and AIDS fundraiser that I was at, the woman who was the executive director’s assistant retired and called me up. She said, “I loved working with you for the two years that you ran that program. I’ve just retired, and I want to work for you.” That became my first admin associate. In a startup kind of landscape, it’s all hands on deck. In some ways, she was probably more framed as a traditional admin. I didn’t need a traditional admin. I needed somebody who was more like a thought partner and builder.
One of the things that I’ve learned now that I’m several years into running my business is that what you want are great people. You can find a role for great people. She wasn’t great at the thing that I needed her for. I didn’t know what I needed her for. She showed up, and I had help when I was like, “I needed help.” Instead of saying, “You’re not serving my needs,” I said, “I didn’t need someone to plan my travel. I didn’t need someone to do receipts for me. I needed somebody to be seven steps ahead of me and fill holes.”
Was she able to do that? How did you fit this person’s talent into the picture?
She is great at a checklist. She needs a checklist. She needs things to do, and there’s a whole part of my business that was referred by a client, which is interview prep. She managed the logistics, scheduling, and planning of over 100 one-on-one private client sessions that we had to do that I couldn’t schedule. She took that on because there was something that had a clear task, a clear objective, and clear deliverables. She was working 10 to 15 hours a week.
That was the first person who came on in an admin support capacity. She recently fully retired. I started running programs. I was still doing one-on-one work primarily with individuals. Our business is B2C but also B2B. There’s a B2C, business-to-client part of our business, and there’s also a business-to-business part of our client. I was doing all of it because I was the person who was leading the workshops and working with people privately.
I did a group program, which is called Fearless Force Public Speaking for Visionary Women Leaders. We’ve done it in New York, San Francisco, Tel Aviv, and three cities in Australia. I had an idea. I was looking at the landscape and thought that the voices of women were highly underrepresented. That didn’t work for me or my politics. I was like, “Can I create some structure that can support and contain the voices of women and give them the collateral that they need in order to amplify their voices and get to the platforms and speak?” I was running the program. I had eight women and the pilot, and I was like, “There’s no way I can do this by myself.”
I have to stop you there for a moment because people are going to wonder if we don’t cover it, and there are a lot of good points you mentioned. One, which we should address real quickly or focus on for a moment is the importance of when you find somebody who’s great but who may not be great for the role that they’re approaching you for or what you think you need. It’s such a great exercise to have that conversation and to try and see, “Where could they potentially fit in?”
Where could you fit in? It’s very easy as an entrepreneur and a founder in your journey to be in a scarcity mindset. If there are people who are showing up and want to help, serve, are aligned with values, are hard workers, and are good people that you can trust, there’s work for them to do. It may not be what you think it is, but there’s definitely work for them to do that can support you.
There are so many ways that we numb ourselves from discomfort, but discomfort is not negative. Discomfort is necessary, and it's part of the business. Click To TweetThere’s an exercise that we’ve taken or suggested to many clients. We do it internally as well, which is to ask our team members, “What are you doing that you absolutely love, and are you doing anything right now that you don’t enjoy at all?” It’s because if you don’t tackle or speak to that, then people are probably not going to show up the way that you want. However, doing something like that helped you to get people in the right place.
Let’s go back to what you were mentioning, which is this pilot of eight people. My question for you was, and I didn’t want to gloss over, how did you get these eight people? Talk to us about the early days of your business and how you even find people that are willing to raise their hands and say, “Yes, I’ll be part of that pilot program.”
I was doing a lot of networking. I was a member of a group called BNI. I’m sure you have it in Canada. It’s Business Networking International. I’m still a member of a BNI chapter. I love their motto of Givers Gain. I love the ability to show up in service and that business I believe is relational and not transactional. That is my value and principle. There are other people who show different values, and there’s room for everybody on the planet. However, I like to do business with people who are relational and not transactional. I know the feeling when I’m relating that way.
Leaning on relationships and networks, I had an advisory board at the beginning of my business. There was someone who had a lot of experience in that startup founder landscape. I had some other trusted people who had backgrounds in law, finance, or other things that were people that I could bounce ideas off of. We met quarterly and was invaluable in the early days of my business to own having to present where are we, where are we going, what the vision is, and what the numbers are. It’s because I was running away from numbers as a words person.
There was an amazing co-working space in New York that no longer exists called the Center for Social Innovation. It’s specifically for social entrepreneurs. I made a partnership with the space that they would donate the space. I paid a nominal price for the space. 6 of the 8 women were members of that. They were tied to or connected to social entrepreneurship ventures within that establishment.
Let me ask a quick question on that because that’s an ingenious idea. You’re looking for partnerships and ways to add value and essentially leverage, “I’m going to be in this space. What could I give to this that doesn’t necessarily cost me that much, but there’s a gain and win-win for both sides?” Is that just your default mindset of you’re always looking to find? Some people would be in that situation but wouldn’t have the “guts” or the mental fortitude to go, “I’m going to offer this to the co-working space that I’m in.” Is that normal for you? Did you work up to that? How did you get to that place?
It’s very normal. I leveraged my relationship a lot with co-working spaces. I did a workshop for a co-working space in Manhattan. They couldn’t pay me, but they said, “I’ll give you free office space.” We’re like, “Great. I’ll take it for a month.” I was working out of anywhere that I could get free Wi-Fi in the early days of the business. I’m not someone who likes to work at home, so I like to have a place to go, but then they gave me the free co-working space and said, “We love you. We want you to be a brand ambassador, and we will give you free office space.”
For two years, I had free office space in Manhattan because I said yes. When you say yes to opportunity, possibility, creativity, and abundance, it’s not what you think. I could have made a stink over the $500 at that time, which that workshop would’ve cost. I got a free office for two years in Manhattan. That was insanity. I created this program where I was going to all the different co-working spaces. I was meeting all of these other small business owners and entrepreneurs. I was also creating opportunities where colleagues of mine were becoming partners in other co-working spaces. In that space of generosity and karma, abundance comes back.
Could we also add to that? Let me know if you think this is fair to say, but you also put yourself out there. You weren’t hiding in a safe office like your own home or hiding behind a computer sending some emails or doing some LinkedIn messages. You are out there meeting real people, which is where you get feedback and build relationships. It’s so much easier to build a relationship.
I know that there are typically younger people who are able to build relationships. I don’t know if they’re real or not with people through gaming and all this different stuff. That’s not my world. I don’t understand that, but when you put yourself out there and meet real people, you tend to build relationships. It’s much harder to do that through a couple of messages online.
I agree, and it goes back to the relational over the transactional. As somebody who specifies verbal communication, I would offer that a conversation and communication are two people speaking to each other. It’s not a tweet, an Instagram, a DM, a text message, or an email. That is a notification that is not a conversation. In Spanish, there’s a great term called dar la cara, which is give face.
We’re losing the ability to be with and give face to each other. We have to deal with the discomfort of that, but there’s magic in that discomfort. On the other side of that are innovation, creativity, and possibility. There are so many ways that we numb ourselves from discomfort, but discomfort is not negative. Discomfort is necessary, and it’s part of the business.
Also, it’s that idea of, “You’re lucky.” I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time. If we break down that sentence for a moment, it’s the right place. You have to be somewhere. You can’t sit behind your computer. That’s why people often find that if you’re not getting out and meeting people, then it becomes very challenging to see the success that you want.
It’s because you’re not going to have the opportunities to create that “luck” that people tend to have when they go to a networking event, a gala dinner, or to whatever it is where you’re surrounding yourself with other people. Also, you have conversations, and all of a sudden, that’s where that “magic” of luck happens.
76% of people suffer from speech anxiety, and everybody else lies. Click To TweetMichael, I had no money at the beginning of my business. It was zero, but I knew I wanted to build an international business. Right at the beginning of my business, I was given an opportunity for free. They paid for me and fed me to go to Berlin to work at the Muslim Jewish Conference. I’m not Muslim and I’m not Jewish, but I said yes to be in this international space, specifically working with social entrepreneurs who were the intersection of multi-faith projects.
Also, because I was already traveling and I was in Berlin, I had this opportunity to go to Kenya to teach LGBTQ+ activists that are on the front lines of equity work in these five East African countries. I flew down to do that. I had a friend of mine that also happened to be there at the same time, who then navigated some connections, and then I flew to Bermuda to lead a men’s retreat.
They didn’t pay me to do the men’s retreat. However, I got two private clients out of that opportunity. Having gone to that Muslim Jewish Conference in Berlin was a gateway for me to meet Israeli entrepreneurs, which led me to run two of my programs in Tel Aviv. Also, getting a faculty appointment to teach public speaking at an MBA program in Herzliya in Israel.
It was all about putting your stuff out there, being with people, serving a need, trusting the relationships, consistently showing up, doing good work, honoring my word, and being of integrity. I call it in my work being a lighthouse. There’s all this gaming and algorithm noise and BS. It’s about being a good person, speaking the truth, beaming your light, and showing up to serve people. At the end of the day, that’s going to attract. All these people may have made a lot of money, but I don’t think they sleep at night.
What we’re talking about now is so incredibly important. It’s not talked about enough. It is the baseline or a strong foundation or platform to build a business. It’s something that, back in the day, people understood and fewer people understand that it’s all about meeting other people, having conversations, and showing up. I want to ask you because we could keep going deeper and deeper into this, but at some point, you made a transition from delivering a workshop for $500, which you didn’t get paid for but got an office space for.
That blossomed into a whole bunch of other things, but at some point, you transitioned from doing those $500 workshops to doing workshops for tens of thousands of dollars or whatever it might be at very large organizations. Walk us through. What was that transition like? If it was the first break, what did you do to start landing some of those bigger names and bigger organization types of projects?
There are several things. One, I have a vast network, and I’ve leveraged my network.
What does that mean? When you say leverage your network, talk to us more specifically. What does that look like?
We use the word privilege, which sometimes makes people run for cover, but it’s important to know that there are many spaces in which I don’t have the privilege, and there are many spaces that I do. I went to an elite preparatory school in Miami, Florida, which was run by the Jesuits, and I have an Ivy League degree from one of the top universities in the United States.
Those people did not go into the theater. I did, but my classmates did. They went on to an array of different careers and things like that. I reached out to my network of people who knew, loved, and trusted me, and they brought me in. Some of those bigger named spaces, I got into through a personal connection and a relationship. They were not the ones that paid me the $45,000 or the $50,000 contracts.
I come from a profession where you get paid in gratitude and applause, which is the theater. Where anyone would pay what people pay now to work with me, there was no frame of reference for that possibility. One, it’s time and reps of understanding and knowing your worth. Also, trusting what the market will bear, and it bears a lot more than you think it will bear when you’re coming from one, which is being an immigrant.
I have an immigrant mentality and scarcity as an artist. That’s the first thing. Also, having people who are trusted confidants who are in corporate and are in organizations who will say, “This is what people are getting paid,” because I don’t come from corporate. They’re the people who come from corporate and organizations who then transition and start their consulting companies but they signed those contracts. They’ve seen those negotiations and pitches, and there’s a whole group of other people who’ve never been in the room.
You are in your network. The people that know you and you’re in a relationship with update you or let you in on what the rates are and what you could expect. That helps you to move to that next level. I want to go back to when you talked about the network, the people that you know through your school and through upbringing or whatever it might be, that they went on to work at some of these large organizations and you went to acting.
You mentioned that you reached out to them or got in touch and they were then able to bring you in. What did you say to those people? I’d love it if you could give a tangible and specific language that you used because I’m wondering. Were you very direct in terms of, “This is what I’m doing now. Do you know anyone that I can help? Can I help you?” Was it more like, “Let’s catch up and talk?” What were you doing in that type of situation?
Sometimes, we can be a little too proud. You never know who is willing to show up to help, so you have to ask. Click To TweetThe thing is I run a public speaking coaching business. The statistic is that 76% of people suffer from speech anxiety, and I believe everybody else lies. If you work for an organization, a team, a school, or something, odds are people on the team are saying, “I want support around public speaking,” or now the buzzword is story and storytelling. That’s what I do. I talk about my entrepreneurial journey. One of my earliest clients, my sister, was working for a consulting company in Boston. They needed somebody to do headshots.
At the time, I was also a portrait photographer. The first wedding I photographed was in Jamaica, and the second one was in Colombia. I came in and did photos for everybody. They were having a meeting, and they were like, “We need someone to do public speaking.” My sister was like, “My brother can do that too. He has a terminal degree from one of the top MFA acting programs in the US. He has his public speaking coaching business.”
One of my earliest jobs was in Boston for this consulting company. They’re all Harvard MBA grads, and I had a methodology. I taught again at the university and was able to leverage that. Again, that’s my sister. Not everyone is a relative, but some of my best friends on my advisory board, the guy that got me to go to the Muslim Jewish Conference, we sang in the Penn Glee Club together. He’s one of my dearest friends and was also on my advisory board.
His cousin’s wife was my first client. She runs a tech company. She’s Chilean and lives in Israel now with her husband and was in San Francisco as part of an incubator for tech entrepreneurs. Her Imposter syndrome was on fire, and I came in and worked with her. She said, “My god. You’re the secret weapon.” She then started sharing with me about this whole network of women founder entrepreneurs in the Bay Area.
Part of that was leveraging the network and relationships, and letting people know, “I have something to offer. Can you help?” Sometimes we can be a little too proud. You never know who is willing to show up to help, so you have to ask. You can ask more than once. Sometimes, we ask once and then cower because it feels shameful, and people are busy. There’s a lot going on in people’s lives, and they forget and want to help. If you give them an opportunity, you’ll be surprised who shows up.
Don’t make it mean anything if they can’t. People are doing the best that they can. Don’t take it personally. Sometimes it takes 2, 3, 4, or 5 years. I get messages from people, “I’ve been following your journey for five years. Now, I want to bring you into my company.” I didn’t even know they were paying attention on Facebook or Instagram, but that’s part of the consistency piece. It’s being a lighthouse.
Those are wise words. Before we wrap up, I want to ask you one other question, which is clearly or, to me, at least it seems from what you shared that much of your success, you do great work for your clients, which is why they keep bringing you back. They’re getting more referrals and introductions. From a networking perspective, it seems to me that you’re very strong in building relationships and creating a powerful network.
Maybe you see not enough people doing this when you think about an effective best practice or an approach or principle when it comes to building relationships and a network that can help you to grow your business. What 1 or 2 things come to mind for you that you think you could offer and share with others that they could benefit from by applying?
I want to put a pause button on that question, but I want to go back to something that you’ve asked and I haven’t answered that answers this question, which is my entire team is relational. My now lead salesperson was my roommate who I brought in to facilitate. We’ve been actors together at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. He’s still acting. A woman in my first program loved the work so much that she then became one of my salespeople and the other group facilitator for the program.
Again, it is nourishing the people who are showing up. They are the people around you that are showing up. They’re present. They want to help harness that energy to say yes. Also, you can’t buy trust. That’s the piece that you can’t quantify either. The business has grown organically. My team is either connected to the theater festival that I worked at or went to my alma mater, UC San Diego, for grad school. There are maybe 1 or 2 people who came in because they were very persistent on other platforms to reach out and connect with us and build a relationship. I want to answer that. These are the two things that I would say to come back to your question, Michael.
It was there, and we went down this other rabbit hole. I appreciate you bringing it back.
I didn’t make this up. This comes from BNI. The most important piece is Givers Gain. It means, “Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.” When you are meeting people, be very curious about what their needs are and solve their problems. You want to be a super-connector. What happens is I know a lot of people.
If I’m having a conversation with a client and find out that they’re moving, I was like, “Do you need a real estate agent?” I’m talking to my client, and they are acknowledging that there is something new that they’re creating, and I was like, “Do you have an intellectual property attorney?” I’m listening to my client and they’re saying, “I don’t know. There’s something happening with my business.” I was like, “Do you have the right accountant?”
If someone’s getting a divorce, I have a divorce attorney. If someone needs a dentist, I have a dentist. Anything that anybody needs, I have a way of helping them out. I am in different social circles in social places. There was someone who posted somewhere, “Does anyone know of a magician that can do an event or whatever?” I was like, “I’ve got a magician.” It’s because I’m listening to people. I’m connecting with people and I have an internal Rolodex where I can do this leveraging. What happens is if you think of other people and you remember them, they will then remember you. That’s the first thing.
If you think of other people and you remember them, they will then remember you. Click To TweetIt’s very easy in the early entrepreneurial days to make it about the transaction. You have no idea who that person is. You have no idea who they know. In the early days of the pandemic, I started doing this event called the Big Gay Sing Along where I gathered people together and we sang show tunes and Disney songs to move through that collective trauma of what March, April, and May of 2020 looked like for people.
This woman found me through Eventbrite and started showing up to these things. She started coming to my event over the course of two years and brought me into her foundation. I did some extraordinary work with some amazing organizations for quite a pretty penny. It took three years to nurture and build that relationship over time for something that was completely and totally unrelated that landed. Now, they’re moving to an executive position at another foundation, and they’re going to bring me to do that work too. It’s not a sprint. It’s a marathon. The last piece is we all have ideal clients, so show up where they hang out.
Is there anything else you want to add to that? More specifically, a quick example before wrapping up here on?
For example, my ideal client is probably someone who’s invested in themselves before. Your public speaking coach is probably not your first investment. You have a health coach. You have had an executive coach, a leadership coach, a presence coach, and a therapist. You’ve been at work. Being at places where coaches and people who are involved in personal life transformation is a great place for me to go. It’s any kind of transformational program. I’m about to go to Tony Robbins Business Mastery because it’s a great place to be. Also, my ideal client is in that room. I have several clients that are Platinum members of Tony Robbins.
That’s such an important question to ask. Everybody here joining us should be asking that same question of where your ideal clients go. Where do they hang out? Those that interact, serve or work with your ideal clients, where do they go? You then build relationships with those people.
Also, ask your clients. “Where are you going?” If you have an amazing client and you’re like, “I love you,” you want to know where they hang out. Where do you meet people? Where can I be around more of you? A lot of my clients are entrepreneurs and small business owners. It’s their whole hubs and communities of small businesses. They travel all over the world to these hubs and gather.
I don’t have to show up from a transactional perspective and say, “I’m here to sell you, but I’m also a small business owner.” One of the spaces that have been a huge source of connection is this community. I was in Rwanda for two weeks, and it had nothing to do with business. It has everything to do with understanding our world and how a country repairs and reframes post-genocide. That’s what I was there for. With me, people who run marketing companies, people who run tech companies, people who are NASA scientists, and people who are in social entrepreneurship. At the intersection of really extraordinary people is the opportunity for abundance.
At the intersection of really extraordinary people is the opportunity for abundance. Click To TweetEduardo, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show, joining us, and sharing some of your stories. There’s so much more that we could go into, but we’ll leave it here. I want to make sure that people can learn more about you and your company and see what’s going on with your team and all the different programs that you have. Give us the website or the best place for people to go to connect with you or learn more.
The best place is www.FearlessCommunicators.com. I have this wonderful little resource. I’m sure it’s not the first time going to a website and getting a resource, but I’m happy with this one. It’s called the 10 Simple Steps To Go From a Speaker To a Star. Imagine it like Jiminy Cricket next to your shoulder saying lots of positive, loving, and affirming things to you. There’s no such thing as private speaking, so all speaking is public. If it’s coming out of your mouth, it’s public. Odds are the majority of people have fear around that. It is of service to that.
Thank you so much for coming to the show.
Thank you, Michael.
Important Links
- Fearless Communicators
- Fearless Force Public Speaking for Visionary Women Leaders
- Business Networking International
Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! https://www.consultingsuccess.com/podcast