Every consultant wants to attract clients. It is that element that keeps the consulting business going. In this episode, Mindy Weinstein, the Founder of Market Mindshift, shares how consultants can use The Power of Scarcity to influence customers’ decisions and attract better clients. She explains the psychology behind scarcity, which consultants should correctly and ethically use to influence potential clients. Drive customer’s into your business not just by playing hard-to-get but also giving value to yourself and your business. This episode is well-packed with Mindy’s wisdom on sales and marketing. Tune in now and apply some tactical ways to help grow your consulting business.
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I’m very excited to have Dr. Mindy Weinstein join us. Mindy, welcome.
Thank you for having me.
You are an author, professor, Founder, and CEO of your company, which we will talk more about, where you specialize in helping businesses in the area of digital marketing. Your insights have been featured in The Washington Post, NBC, ABC, and many more. Your book which we will be diving into is The Power of Scarcity: Leveraging Urgency & Demand to Influence Customer Decisions. I’m excited to explore that with you.
I know we were just chatting here before about scarcity and the timeliness of what’s happening in the world, and maybe some events that you know better than I do about. Why don’t we start off by going back in time a little bit? Before you started your consulting business and before you wrote this book, what were you doing? Take us back to the early days of Mindy.
The early days. I have always been a marketer. Way back in the day, decades ago when I graduated with my undergrad, it was in marketing. That’s what I spent the bulk of my career on. For me, in 2007, I ended up focusing specifically on digital marketing and has spent a lot of time there. Fast forward to now, I’m a full-time professor, but I still have a marketing business. I feel like to be a good marketing professor, I need to be doing marketing because it changes all the time. During that whole journey is when I ended up getting my PhD. It set me on the road to studying scarcity, which then prompted the whole book, but always been a marketer.
That’s an interesting comment you made about being a professor, but also still have at least a foot in the practical world and applying. You see a lot of people in the education space who haven’t necessarily done or not doing what they are working on. It’s very interesting that you are doing that. Has that always been a belief that you have had? How have you thought about that? Has your thinking about that changed over the years?
For me, it was when I got my MBA. I was working full-time. I was doing an m MBA program. I remember I did like my marketing instructor, but I realized that she had never once worked outside of the school. She had only been an instructor. While she was good, I felt like it was nice to know beyond theoretical and principles like, “Here’s what works and what doesn’t work. Here’s what works right now.”
I remember then thinking if I end up teaching one day, which was on my goal list, I want to make sure that I’m still in the field because it is one of those industries that changes all the time. I can’t say that for every type of field that people are teaching, even within business, but marketing especially. Things are evolving. There’s always new technology, and new ways to reach customers. I knew that was going to be a big thing that I needed to always do the dual roles there.
I want to make this very practical for people because your book covers a topic that I think people will understand at some level, but probably don’t apply it in their business. Maybe it feels a little bit internet markety or this idea of scarcity. How does it actually work? Is it applicable or honest? We are going to get into that, but before we do, I want to also talk about how you got started in the business. I think it was about 2016 when you started your company, Market MindShift. What was going on then in your life? Why did you decide to launch that business?
I have never looked at myself as an entrepreneur or as an inspiring business owner. I had been working at different digital marketing agencies for years. In one of the companies I was at while I loved it, I was in a good role. We had major clients. We were working with Nickelodeon, Facebook, and all these huge companies. It was fantastic, but I have two kids.
I was traveling a lot. I was gone a quarter of the year. On top of that, I was going to have more travel put on my schedule where I was going to be gone even more. I have two boys, they are now teenagers, but back then they used to stand on the driveway and cry when I would leave for a week-long trip. They don’t do that now. They probably wish that I would go for a week-long trip if I’m just being honest.
I remember at that point I was like, “I can’t do this anymore.” I ended up taking that leap of going from being an employee to being a consultant on my own. Fortunately, I had enough relationships that I picked up a couple of clients. It was scary for a little bit because you go from that paycheck to now you are responsible for all of that, but it’s gone really well. Since then, I have continued on. I do have a small team. I have a few employees. I keep it small because again, I do teach, but that’s really what got me into it. I even have my students ask me, “Did you always want to be an entrepreneur?” I’m like, “No, I just ended up doing that and going that route.”
It’s interesting because we have definitely seen this with consultants and people that we have worked with or coached over the years. I remember one person comes to mind right away who, very similar, felt their schedule was taking over their life. Has a pretty big family with many kids and wants to spend more time at home. I’m wondering if you could give a little bit of insight into how you made that transition. Did you decide, “I’m going to wait until I build up a certain amount of cash reserves?” Take us behind the scenes a little bit more. How did you decide to make that shift?
I’m a very risk-averse person. I don’t like risk. I should have been a risk analyst when I think back about it. That would have been the perfect role for me. I remember starting to think, I want to transition on my own because I was traveling and I was gone a lot. I ended up testing the waters and I did pick up a side client. Even my company knew and it wasn’t an issue, but this was working really well.
From there, I was still nervous. One client alone wasn’t enough to leave, and I picked up a second client. Just to give you a short version, but still, the details you need. I was on a family vacation and it was Thanksgiving years ago. During that trip with my family, I got booked on a very long, extensive work travel trip. When I found out, I was like, “I can’t do this anymore.” That was my tipping point. “I can’t do this. I will figure this out.”
What was so amazing is that when I did put in my notice, that particular company actually became a client. They turned me into a consultant. I wasn’t having to travel. I didn’t have as much of the responsibilities as I had before, but I still did some things for them. Even with that, it was scary. I remember always being concerned of what if I lose a client or what if I can’t get more clients. The tipping point was that trip where I was like, “I can’t do this to my kids.”
What got you through? When you had those concerns or the mindset going on like, “What if this doesn’t work out?” All of this different garbage that we have in our minds swirling around at times. The things that might hold us back. Limiting beliefs. Things of that nature. Is there anything that you found at that time to be helpful that pulled you forward and kept you going to take that action that you wanted to, but maybe at times hesitated or weren’t sure about?
There are two things. I remember this vividly. I’d stepped out on my own, I had a small handful of clients, and then I lost one of them and they were the big one. This was only three months into being on my own. I remember feeling like I couldn’t even go on that day. It hit me that hard. I thought, “I will give myself today to sulk, be stressed, and be freaking out about this, but tomorrow when I wake up I’m moving on.” I gave myself that day. I just laid around. I was sulking and all that.
The next day, I got up, I’m like, “I need to find more clients.” That was a huge thing for me. It’s not necessarily a mindset thing, it was just pushing myself to keep meeting people. I would keep taking meetings with people I’d meet at networking groups and all over. Some of the meetings didn’t turn into anything, but some of them did.
I kept pushing myself because I’m one who doesn’t like that kind of thing. I have a hard time sometimes with small talk with people I don’t know. I kept pushing myself and I finally met someone who had his agency. He’s like, “I would love to outsource this particular function to you.” From that point on, 25% of my revenue was coming from his agency alone for a couple of years. I guess the mindset was, “Do it anyway, even if it’s something you are not necessarily crazy about.” Like me, networking events and meeting people.
Talk to me a little bit more about that, because it’s something that’s a cornerstone of any business. Building relationships, getting out there, meeting people, and having conversations are what we talk a lot about here. That’s something that, for you, wasn’t necessarily natural. You didn’t enjoy thinking about, “I can’t wait to go out and talk to people I don’t know.”
You can share valuable educational information. It attracts people who want to learn more because it will lead them to your business. Click To TweetWhat did you do? How did you put yourself in a position where you were able to go out and meet with people? You referenced some networking groups. Did you join networking groups? Did you send emails to people? Walk us through those early days and even today, if there’s a difference between what you are doing today compared to back then. How are you creating conversations with ideal clients or people that you want to work with?
Back then, I did join a big group out here. That helped. I would go and attend, and I’d have some conversations that would lead to lunches and coffees. That was a huge thing. The other thing that I would do is try to spread the word. Fortunately, with marketing and my services, I could do it anywhere. I’m just tapping my network with who I know. Like, “Do you know anybody that could use these services?” That was really big.
During that time period at the same time, part of one of my roles when I was at the previous agency was speaking at conferences. I was doing presentations, and sharing my knowledge. I decided I’m going to continue that. I started doing local events, but still industry conferences and I do that a lot now. That’s actually where I get a lot of clients. I get referrals, but a lot from conferences. Personally, I don’t view myself as the best salesperson. I don’t know who would admit that, but I just don’t.
I think a lot of people probably resonate with that.
I realized that I like to teach and I like to share my knowledge. If I get on the stage and I’m not selling, I give away information. People don’t even need to hire me. I give them enough information, they could go on their own. I set myself up as a subject matter expert, and then the conversations that happen, I ended up getting calls and emails, and the conversations are different. It’s a matter of not me trying to necessarily sell them on my services, but they will call to follow up, “I heard you speak. I really liked what you had to say. I’d be interested in working with you.” Even during that call, it’s still usually me educating them probably to death, maybe a little too much.
That’s the teacher in you.
That’s a huge thing, and then of course, referrals but it wasn’t like referrals were the first thing that was happening. Wouldn’t that be great if that was the only thing?
I want to get on and talk more about your book, the idea of scarcity, and explore that in much more detail because I think it’s an incredibly powerful concept. Before we do that, speaking about speaking and putting yourself in the position to get in front of ideal clients where you can be yourself and you can share valuable educational information. By doing that, it clearly attracts people that want to learn more, and that leads to business.
Is there a tip or two that you would suggest to somebody who is connecting with that? Thinking to themselves, “I don’t like to sell either,” or maybe they do like to sell, but they just want to get in front of more people through speaking. Is there anything that you have done over the years there or anything that you would recommend that people do to land speaking engagements?
Yes, I went down that road. The biggest advice is to start with something that’s small and local to you. There are a lot of different organizations that are local. Here in the US, we have a lot of chambers of commerce and we have different groups like that, but there are groups like that everywhere. Finding some of the smaller organizations like that, they are always looking for speakers. Someone they could bring into their meeting, even if it’s just twenty minutes.
Start with that. If you want to get into bigger industry conferences for whatever field you are in, a lot of them want to see that you have had speaking experience. If you can get something that’s on a smaller circuit, smaller stage, but they are still potential clients, that’s still great. You need to get that experience.
If you start pitching these conferences, then you are at the point where you can show that experience. I will also tell you that when it comes to pitching conferences because a lot of them do have speaker submissions, the biggest thing is making it almost in bullet point form of, “This is my topic. These are the three things that someone’s going to take away.”
If it’s a longer talk, you could do five things. If it’s a 30-minute talk or 20 minutes, I have learned three. That’s big because then now it’s not just a vague topic. That person who’s in charge of hiring speakers can see, “This is going to get me in.” There’s actually a third thing that just pops into my head because I have been doing this for a lot of people in my industry.
If you know someone who’s been speaking at conferences, reach out to them for introductions because I do that for one of the conference series that I have been speaking at for years. I’m helping these new speakers bypass the normal system because I’m pretty much vouching for them. I’m saying, “I trust this person.” That’s how to go about it. Even the nervousness because we all get nervous, every speaker. They might tell you that they don’t, but they all do a little bit, but that’s okay because you know your stuff, you know your information. It’s okay. Take a deep breath, get up there, and say what you know.
That feeling of nervousness, that’s a sign of growth. If you are not feeling that way, you are probably not growing or challenging yourself. That’s great advice. Let’s get into scarcity. First, define how you would explain what scarcity means. We will then talk about how it applies to the world of consulting and professional services.
Scarcity. The most basic way to define it is unavailability or some type of restriction. I want to immediately dispel the myth of scarcity marketing because I feel like a lot of people hear that and they are like, “Those are the emails that I get that are like, ‘One seat left, buy now or miss out forever.’” It’s more than that. It’s actually a lot deeper, more complex, and more powerful. Even within a consulting role. It doesn’t have to be a product you are selling. From a consulting standpoint, you can still use the principles of scarcity.
Let’s get into that. Before we do, this might be helpful. Is there more than one type of scarcity? Let’s go over at a high level how should people think about it, and then I’d love to get into some practical examples of scarcity.
That’s the thing. Everyone thinks of scarcity as something being restricted or sold out, and that’s only one. There are four types, and they are all ones that I have gotten into in my books. There’s time-related, and that’s a limitation on time. That’s where promotions, flash sales, and things like that fall into, or limited-time products. There’s demand related.
It is a supply issue caused by popularity but also having best sellers or waitlists. All of that fall into demand-related scarcity. There’s supply-related scarcity. That does come from either a distribution shortage or truly there is just a limited number available, and that’s really big. A limited edition is a twist on the original, so it’s still only in a certain supply. It falls under supply-related, but I like to pull it out as a separate one because it’s used so often. With these different types of scarcity, even as a consultant, you could use the different types. They work differently and they appeal to different audiences, too.
Let’s go into a little bit more detail around those. I’m going to consider this almost a bit of a lightning round. I’m going to give you a situation or a bit of a theme, and then I’d love for you to share how scarcity might apply to that. If you don’t feel it does, just let me know and we will move on to the next. The first one is scarcity in terms of marketing and getting more clients.
Frame the message as a loss instead of framing it as 'just a gain.' Click To TweetDepending on getting more clients, with that, I want to get into it as if you are in the actual prospect meeting because that’s where I feel like you could use it. A secret, which I guess is not a secret because I’m saying it, I do this sometimes, but it’s natural. Scarcity as a consultant, your time is limited. We only have 24 hours in the day. You naturally already have a very truthful and honest limitation.
When you do get a prospect on the phone, in a virtual meeting, or in person, it’s completely okay to tell that client that you are selective on people that you work with or companies because your time is limited. You only have so much time, so you can only focus so much on your clients, so you are very selective and exclusive doing that because it’s true, we should be selective.
From research and experience, what happens is that when you make a statement like that, it’s going to flip the conversation. Now, you are going to have that potential client telling you why you should work with them and how they would be an ideal client. It’s a great way to start to close more deals. It’s truthful. Again, we only have so much available time in the day.
That’s a great piece of advice. Also, the framing of that is so important because that’s probably the biggest thing that holds people back when it comes to applying the concept of scarcity. Their concern of, “Am I being honest? Am I not being truthful?” The reality is, even if you are not being selective, you probably should be. That’s a great reminder. How about proposals? It could be anywhere inside of the proposal process, the actual written proposal itself, or the conversation around the proposal. Any examples of scarcity in that?
There’s one that is great for proposals. This is where you could show demand-related scarcity, so you are showing popularity. Within a proposal, as you are laying out everything, I’m going to add to your scenario. Let’s say that you have different packages or different retainer options, which I know a lot of consultants do have that. You could do this or that.
Marking on the proposal, this is the package or the retainer that is most popular among my clients, and this is what I would recommend to you. At the same time, it’s social proof, but I do talk about my book in terms of people like me. Make sure within the proposal itself having those testimonials, because then you are not having to tout how great you are. You are going to have someone else do it. That’s social proof, and it also shows popularity. In proposals, I like to notate something. “This is the one that’s most commonly chosen, or the best seller, or most popular.” That really can help you.
One example that we have seen multiple times with consultants that we work with is applying inside of the proposal that the pricing available is only for a certain period of time, and then after that, it might change or something along those lines. What are your thoughts on that application?
It definitely depends on what your business is. I’m going to give an example of one that I don’t think worked as well. This was a conversation that was high pressured. It was a consultant trying to hire an accountant. The accountant was basically like, “If you commit right here on the phone, I can give you this price of 20%.” You wouldn’t normally expect that from an accountant. It backfired a little bit.
There’s that fine line, but I do think that if you are able to put it in a way and it would make sense and say, “Here is the normal pricing. I can offer this particular discount over this time period.” It definitely can work. Here’s an extra thing you are going to want to do. This ignites a little bit of FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out. That’s more of the buzzword. It’s loss aversion. In the psychology world, that’s what we call it.
If you put on that proposal, “This is the discounted rate you are offering.” Show what it would normally be, because then what happens, it’s actually now framed as a potential loss. They can have this pricing, but if they don’t end up signing within a certain time period, they are going to miss that. Framing the message is a loss versus a gain.
I think a very common application of this in the consulting world is providing options, but also in addition to that, offering a discount if the client pays upfront in full. Many organizations have a rule inside of procurement that if there’s a discount that is offered, you have to take it. Providing that typically can be a win-win situation. We talked about this, but I’m wondering. Is there anything else related to fees and scarcity that you have seen that you feel is a real best practice that somebody in the world of professional services and consulting should be aware of?
We covered most of them. I would just say, with fees, if there is any discount, like I said, a lot of people don’t think about showing the regular price, but that’s important because that’s a trigger for someone. That’s really big.
What other examples come up that you feel would be relevant to the world of consulting and professional services? It could be from different industries. A sign that you do in your own consulting business. I’m wondering if you have studied this area of scarcity. What do you think people are not maybe making use of that they could be and should be?
I’m going to admit that this one’s tough for me. As I’m telling you this, I want you to know that this one’s tough for me. In the world of consulting, it’s a little scary to not work with everybody that comes your way because there is that fear of, “What if I don’t get more clients the next month? What if you are always in that concern?”
What happens then is you are just completely available and you are going to burn yourself out, too. You are going to end up working with people or projects you might not necessarily have wanted to work with. One of the things with scarcity is the whole mentality of playing hard to get. I’m not talking about dating relationships, but I did, in my book, interview someone who has his PhD in Psychology. He actually goes by The Attraction Doctor. That’s what his branding name is.
We had this long conversation about this idea because it really is scarcity. His thing as we were talking, he’s like, “I think it’s important for people to know it’s not just playing hard to get meaning not taking people’s phone calls or not emailing them back right away. It’s not what I’m talking about, but really on valuing yourself.” We all have value. We all are unique. We all have something to bring to the table.
Knowing that and reminding yourself of that will automatically cause that playing hard to get without meaning to you. It even goes back to the conversation I was saying, you could say you are selective because that shows you are valuable. You value yourself. You understand yourself. That could mean that you don’t take every project.
The other thing too, and this is a little thing. This is hard even for myself if you are not sure of saying, “I really liked our conversation. Let me think about this to see if I would be a good fit for you.” Again, that’s hard for me sometimes too, but even doing that, all of a sudden, now you played hard to get. You probably didn’t need to think about it. It’s not making it up. You need to think about it. Those are little things. They are so small in wording, but they make a huge impact.
You have a lot more applications and ideas behind how to apply scarcity or more background on the power of scarcity in your book. I want to ask you another thing before we move on. Why scarcity? You have been doing marketing, more specifically digital marketing, and you have that business. You have a few employees in addition to working as a professor. Why claim scarcity? Why make that your thing and not something else? If you could take us to the strategic decision behind selecting something that you want to be known for, how did you arrive at scarcity?
It’s interesting how this all happens. As I have already mentioned, I teach. Part of that, I needed to continue my education. I went and finished my PhD. When I was working on my PhD, as most of you know, part of it is you have to create a dissertation and you have to defend your dissertation. Meaning you have to do your own research on something.
No matter what industry you belong to, if you're trying to reach people, you have to understand the human mind, motivation, and influence. Click To TweetI knew going in my degrees in general psychology with an emphasis in technology. I’m just coming from a marketing perspective. Right away, I want to study something that has to do with the motivations behind consumers. What motivates them? As I started diving in, I was in the program for five and a half years. As I was doing my research over those years, I realized, in terms of motivational factors and what influences us, scarcity, from everything that I have read in academic research, is the most powerful.
You can argue that. The reason is because scarcity has been a part of us as humans from the very beginning. We were trying to survive and there are scarce resources available, scarce shelters, scarce food, and scarce water, and our brains are hardwired to try to overcome any type of scarcity. Fast forward to today, we might not be necessarily looking for, “Where are we going to get our next cup of water?” Our brains are still wired to pay attention to scarcity.
When I was studying all this, I realized, through research, we have been able to see that in brain scans when someone’s faced with scarcity. I’m talking about things like an auction simulation, where you are going to bid on this product that’s running out. The brain activity where the decisions are made starts to light up very quickly.
It also shows in the brain through these scans that the normal steps that would have been taken to make a decision are skipped. It goes from scarce, to urgent, and this needs my attention. At the same time, there have been other studies that have shown also through brain scans that faced with something that’s scarce. In the valuation process, there’s a part of the brain that does that.
The activity starts to ramp up and shows that if something is scarce, we tend to view it as more valuable. It was through all of that research that all of a sudden, I thought, “I always thought the same thing about scarcity marking that a lot of people do like, ‘Act now.’” It’s like, “So what?” I’m onto all that stuff, but when I realized that this is a big thing and it’s so subconscious, that’s what led me down that route.
I ended up doing my dissertation on scarcity and was done with everything, and then the pandemic hit. I was watching real-time all the things that I had been researching and studying play out. I thought, “I think it’s time to take this information out of the academic world and bring it into the business world.” That’s a long answer to what got me there.
I think it’s a great decision because I have certainly been aware of scarcity. We have applied different aspects of it in different businesses over the years as well. One thing we didn’t touch on, it just came to mind for me right now that I think would be helpful for some people that are reading this. Give me your perspective if you see it differently, but let’s take a consultant.
A consultant might think about, “If I apply this to my business, this is beneficial for me and therefore, I have to be very careful about applying it. I have to make sure it’s honest.” Which is certainly important. At the same time, I think what people often fail to think about is that scarcity is not just beneficial to you as a consultant or provider, it’s actually beneficial to the client.
There’s a reason why they reached out. There’s a reason why they are having a conversation because they are looking for help. They are looking to solve a problem or to achieve a desired future state. They want change. They don’t want to stay where they are. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be having any conversations with you.
If you can apply an aspect of a reason for them or something that gets them to take that next step. Not only is that beneficial of course to your business because you now have a client or somebody that’s joined you, but they have also applied change in their life. They have taken a step closer to what they wanted, and so often, it’s themselves that are holding them back from taking action. I think that’s the other real benefit of scarcity. It is a benefit to both parties, not just to one side. Does that align with what you are seeing in research and how you think about it? Is there anything that you’d want to add to that?
It absolutely does. Two things come to mind when you are saying that. I talked about brain activity and decision-making. Sometimes we get in those situations with our clients, where they are not sure and they are dragging their feet. They know they need it, so the scarcity principles we know help speed along the decision-making. The other is value, because like I was saying, you are valuable. Showing that to your client, you are going to be giving them that value. They benefit from it and you are able to show that to them, too. I definitely would agree with you coming from those two different perspectives.
I’m really glad that you moved forward doing a book on this concept because I think it’s been written about. There have been little elements in Robert Cialdini’s book. There’s maybe a section or something on scarcity, but I haven’t seen somebody do a whole deep work around this yet. It’s such a powerful aspect of the business. I want to encourage people to check out your book and learn more.
In just a moment, we will make sure that they can do that or you can direct them to the right place. Before we go there, I wanted to ask you. As someone in the world of education, you are looking at a lot of research. You have the benefit of working in academics, but also running a business and working with clients. What is one book that you have enjoyed that you have either read or listened to and that you would recommend to others?
You just mentioned Dr. Cialdini. I just read his new version of Influence, and actually, he’s a friend of mine. He is someone that I had been talking to through this process. I even have his quote through his endorsement of the book. Definitely, for me, I feel in business, no matter what industry you are in, even if you are business to business, you are trying to reach people.
We have to understand the human mind. We have to understand the motivation and influence. That’s why this topic of scarcity interests me, but in a broader view, Robert Cialdini’s book, Influence covers all the different influence factors. In his most recent version, he brought in some more recent additions to the factors. I think that’s a great one. I even think it has good tips that help you with parenting.
Before wrapping up, I want to thank you for coming on here. I want to make sure that people can learn more about you and everything that you have going on. What is the best place or the one website URL destination for people to check out?
PowerOfScarcity.com. I made it very easy. If you go to PowerOfScarcity.com, it will take you to the page that’s all about the book and you can see some other things about me. My contact information is there, too. I would love to be able to help whoever needs help with this.
Thank you again so much for coming on.
Thank you.
Important Links
- The Power of Scarcity: Leveraging Urgency & Demand to Influence Customer Decisions
- Market MindShift
- Influence
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