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Episode #181
Shiv Narayanan

Generating $2M in Consulting Revenue in 18 Months

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Summary

Saying no to revenue is the hardest thing to do, but sometimes you have to do it in order to build a more sustainable business. This is one of the things that Shiv Narayanan learned on his way to generating $2 million in consulting revenue for his B2B SaaS startup. The founder and CEO of How To SaaS, Shiv developed high-performance marketing systems that drive revenue growth. These systems helped him lead his company in a staggering growth from zero gains to seven figures in a span of 18 months. If that’s not enough to make you wonder what these marketing systems are all about, you should know that Shiv did this without the benefit of having a sales team! Join in as he explains these systems further in this conversation with Michael Zipursky.

I’m with Shiv Narayanan. Shiv, welcome.

Thanks for having me on, Michael. I’m super excited to be here.

I’m excited to dive into your story. You’re the Founder and CEO of How To SaaS, a consulting company where you help SaaS companies. For those that aren’t familiar, Software as a Service is what SaaS stands for. You help them to develop marketing systems to drive revenue growth. Prior to that, you served as the CMO of Wild Apricot, which was acquired in October of 2017. You’ve grown your business now to seven-plus employees or team members. You shared that you’re now up to about $2 million in revenue. That’s great in such a short period of time.

I want to dive into how you’ve done that, but you’ve also worked with some very well-established clients like Genstar Capital, TA Associates, Polaris Partners, and a whole bunch more. Before we get to all that, I want to take us back to your time as a CMO at Wild Apricot. You grew the company there, or a part of growing the company to about $20 million in annual recurring revenue without a sales team. Take us through that. How do you accomplish that level of revenue without a sales team?

My background is I started in the internet marketing world right at a school. In the internet marketing world, you sell eBooks, courses, etc., all through digital marketing channels and programs. When we entered the SaaS universe in Wild Apricot, I took over as a CMO. One of the things that I noticed is most of the SaaS companies in the world were going to market with a sales-led model. Even with most B2B companies in general, sales-led is the approach because the deal sizes are high and sales teams can target directly. That ends up being a go-to-market. On the Wild Apricot side, we had smaller deal sizes. Our starting plan, if you’re a small nonprofit, you can use Wild Apricot’s all-in-one solution for about $1,000 a year. With such a low price point, marketing had to be the primary go-to-market mechanism.

CSP 181 | Consulting Revenue

 

As we started building that, the company started going and we would meet people, to us, it seemed like we were building something obvious and what was customary in that situation, but we started hearing more and more about how unique that model was. We were using Google Ads, inbound, SEO, content, nurturing and Facebook Ads. We were doing all these things before they were cool. Now, it’s widespread and people are starting to understand that this is how you go to market in a digital world, especially with COVID when you can’t do things like trade shows and traditional marketing. When we were doing it, we were one of the first people to be doing it. That’s where the origin story for How To SaaS began because as we started building that and we started seeing how unique it was, we saw that as an opportunity to bring those same practices to other B2B companies in the form of a consulting model.

Have you always been passionate about SaaS? It’s a bit of a two-part question, which is where does that passion come from? You mentioned internet marketing so there is a bit of a connection to SaaS and doing things online. I wonder if you speak about that. The second part of that question is, did you ever consider servicing, taking your skills and knowledge as a marketer and as someone who knows how to build a business, build revenue and help other types of companies that were not SaaS? Was it very clear to you from day one like, “No, I’m going to build a company that focuses on Software as a Service companies?

Software as a Service is where we focus initially because that’s where I’ve had the most success in my background. SaaS was exploding starting in about 2014-ish when a lot of companies started to emerge. We had been building Wild Apricot during that time. Now you see, everybody’s starting a SaaS company, but back then, it wasn’t as common. I saw that as a market opportunity and it was more of a specialization approach because there are a lot of marketing principles that overlap across eCommerce versus SaaS versus you’re going manufacturing. If you’re thinking about SaaS, in particular, there are some things that are unique to that context. I have advised eCommerce companies, companies that sell bone broth or weighted jump ropes, and things like that, that I’ve done in the past. By focusing on SaaS, you can build standardized practices that help those companies better because it’s a specialization.

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Did you ever feel a pull through to take your skills and knowledge and also target eCommerce? This is a challenge that a lot of consultants have, which is, “I can help X, Y and Z. Why only focus on X?” Was that very clear for you? Did you ever feel like you were being pulled to have a bit more of a broader message that not only appealed to SaaS companies but also to other eCommerce companies or other online businesses?

That pull is constantly there. One of the hardest things in any business is saying no to revenue. When you have guaranteed revenue coming in or somebody that wants your help, the inclination is to say yes. One of the things that came about from building Wild Apricot and being deeply embedded into business and strategy through high-level conversations and executive meetings is I’m a big believer in Michael Porter line, which is, “Strategy is not about what you do, it’s about what you don’t do.” For me, when I look at our business, yes, we can chase other revenue, but we constantly say no to revenue that’s beyond what we specialize in just because it’s not in our wheelhouse.

Even in our sales decks, we have a slide that says Ideal Customer Profile. It says, “You have to be above this much revenue. Your deal sizes need to be this. You need to have a marketing leader on staff. You need to be at this level of maturity. If you’re not, you’re not a good fit for us. We can refer you to someone.” It becomes a disqualifier in sales meetings, and we lose some deals that way, but when we find the person that’s an ideal fit, they know that they’ve found the right partner as well.

I’m going to play the devil’s advocate here and for someone reading, going, “That makes sense for you. You’re established. You have $2 million in revenue.” Were you also doing that? Were you applying that mindset even in the earlier days of the business or is that something that you now feel like, “We have the luxury,” because you’ve established a good solid base to build on?

It’s even in the earlier days. It comes down to building a differentiated position. We are a marketing strategy consulting firm, specifically for B2B companies. We work with high-level investors that are buying and selling companies for hundreds of millions of dollars. There are plenty of marketing agencies out there that can, for example, set up your Google Ads for you. If that’s the work that we try to chase, then we’re going to be playing in a commoditized market. The way to win is by lowering your price. As a consultant, that’s the last place you want to be. You don’t want to compete on price. You want to compete on value, and then the price is no longer a factor because you want to be operating in high margins. By starting there, we set ourselves up for success.

It was painful initially because I quit my job and I left a significant amount of equity on the table, a high-paying executive salary with all the benefits of travel, a corporate card and all that stuff. When you leave, you have these opportunities come to you and you’re saying no to the revenue. I’m talking with my wife about it and she’s like, “Why are we saying no to money when there’s not enough business initially?” You’re doing that because over the long run, you’re going to build a better business that is more sustainable with a differentiated position. As time goes on, your margins are only going to grow because of that differentiated position. That’s hard to do. Every person’s situation is different. If you’re pre that situation, it’s okay to take on some of that work to keep yourself afloat, but the North star should always be to build that differentiated position.

CSP 181 | Consulting Revenue

 

Your focus is on what you call a high-performance marketing system for SaaS companies. Take us through what does that system looks like? What are the different parts that make up that system?

Within the components, we might still do things like demand gen across channels like Facebook or Google, but our differentiator is data. When we’re working with these large investors, when they’re buying these companies for millions of dollars, what they want to know is, “I bought this company. I want to scale it. My purpose for scaling it is at some point, I want to sell this company, whether by going public or by flipping it to a different investor. I need to be able to use data to understand where my levers are to scale.” Marketers, by default, suck at telling that story or speaking that native language of data.

Our framework is bringing data to that conversation and saying, “Here’s where our marketing spend is going.” For example, you’re spending $2 million a year on marketing. “Here’s the ultimate impact marketing made on revenue by channel and by the campaign. Here are the opportunities to scale within that and here are additional items that have not been explored or experimented with that we’d like to attach a budget to. Based on that information, here’s our recommendation in terms of who you should hire, where you should scale your budgets and what it ultimately looks like in terms of your growth aspirations to decide how much budget you give to marketing.”

It sounds like you have two parts of your business. You have the consulting where you work with SaaS companies to help them grow revenue and put that marketing system in place. The other side is working with private equity firm who are looking to acquire a SaaS business and want to make sure that their investment is going to be a good one by looking for what are the assets in that business that aren’t yet being fully utilized and can be improved to create higher value? What percentage of your business is on the PE side? What percentage would you say is more on the consulting side?

When we sold Wild Apricot, we sold to private equity. By going through that process, there’s something called an earned thesis. Every founder needs to have an earned thesis. It’s a secret or an insight about a market that most people do not have. Most marketing agencies have never been through an acquisition, so they don’t understand all the stakeholders involved, what’s at stake, what a board meeting looks like and what a pitch meeting looks like when you’re selling a company. By understanding that opened up this market that is pretty much a blue ocean for us. We primarily go to market by focusing on private equity firms or at least that was a starting point. There are a ton of people who go to market by trying to find startups or SaaS companies.

We get inbound requests like that all the time and many times those companies are too small for us. We don’t play in that sandbox. However, PE almost becomes like a channel partner. They’ll refer a big SaaS company to us and then we work with the SaaS companies, our client. We’ve also built a go-to-market to say, “Can we buy ourselves source deals from SaaS companies that are doing $100 million in revenue and how do we build our go-to-market on that side?” That’s our sweet spot. When you get to that level of complexity, there’s so much data to manage that you need to have a high-level strategic thinker involved to be able to figure out what to do with marketing next. That’s our unique value proposition there.

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It sounds like what you’re doing is focusing on the PE side because of your experience going through the acquisition process when you’re a part of that previous company. By going in and essentially doing that deep dive on their data from the marketing side, showing them, sharing these new insights and then giving them recommendations, that’s almost like your entry point. I’m wondering, do you find that then also leads to a lot of these PE companies saying, “Thank you so much for all these recommendations and these insights. We’re not going to go ahead and plan to acquire this company. When we do, we want to bring you and your team on to help us to implement those recommendations?” Is that what typically happens?

It happens all the time. In terms of our core product lines, I would say we have two. One is a full-scale engagement where we’re doing implementation and making a larger recommendation. That is roughly a 4 to 6-month engagement. We then have 2 to 3-week engagements where we’re advising a transaction similar to the way you would hire a Deloitte to advise on the acquisition on the financial side. You would hire us to advise on the marketing side and due diligence on specific target acquisition. We work on both of those and that allows us to get embedded into the PE transaction process entirely from end to end. We are their partner.

A lot of consultancies struggle with recurring revenue. Our model doesn’t have that because an agency, for example, charges a retainer monthly. Our model, though, because we have the PE as a partner, we have reoccurring revenue. A PE partner might bring us into one investment or portfolio company. If that goes well, we build a partnership. The next time they acquire a company, they’re going to call us. Every year the same PE firm is buying 1, 2, 3 companies and we become part of their playbook and are embedded into that ecosystem.

How do you think about pricing or what is your pricing strategy? You’re talking about deal sizes here that could be tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. If the marketing strategies and campaigns that you identify are in that existing company aren’t good or there are some bad apples or there’s a great opportunity. The value that you’re contributing could be significant in helping that PE firm to decide whether or not to move forward and then how to best make use of that investment or how to grow the value so they can cash out at a time down the road, at a significantly higher valuation. How do you think about pricing when you bring your team and you guys get involved? Is it on an hourly basis, a daily basis, ROI or value-focused? I’d love to know your thoughts or what your strategy is when it comes to pricing?

The pricing part to me is connected to the product side and the product side is connected to understanding the market. On the market side, before we even got through to pricing, it’s understanding what the things that are motivating these investors to be able to make the decisions? What are their incentives? What are the things that keep them up at night? What are their goals, dreams and ambitions? For a PE investor or an investment firm in general, you raise money from a fund. People give you money to buy and sell companies. When you buy a company, you have to grow it. If you don’t grow it, you’re not going to be able to generate a return for your fund. If you’re not able to generate a return for your fund, you’re never going to be able to raise more money in the future.

That’s the connected cycle. We get their incentive structure there and we want to bring them as much value as possible to help them be successful. When a transaction happens, there’s a bunch of financial dynamics in terms of how money moves or exchanges hands. By understanding those dynamics, being able to price in a model that gives them the right type of leverage in the right stage. For example, if a firm buys a company or offers to buy a company, but the deal falls through, it’s far more expensive for them to hire us than if the deal doesn’t fall through. We have contingency-based pricing that gives us a lot more upside once a transaction gets completed. Understanding those dynamics is critical because until we understood that contingency-based pricing component, our conversion rates on deals is lower for a due diligence engagement, for example.

The last piece is productization. We have those two offerings that I mentioned, but every engagement looks very similar. In our end to end, we have a step-by-step that we’re taking each company through. That’s what we pitched during sales meetings. That’s what’s in the SOW. That’s what’s happening and how we wrap up the engagement. There are times when we’re more perfect than others, but the expectations are clear in terms of what we’re selling. The price is based on the value. It’s never based on time. We don’t build by the hour.

There’s no mention of the number of hours on an invoice ever. Most of our engagements are prepaid. They must be because we’re putting in hours into the engagement, but also, it’s like you’re buying a premium service and that’s connected to the positioning aspect of it too. You have this massive problem that’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars to you. If we solve it, that’s what it’s worth, so you should be willing to pay for that. Our pricing reflects that. Our average deal size is at least $100,000 and we could scale up from there.

CSP 181 | Consulting Revenue

 

What do you say when a new investor, someone that has not worked with you, a new PE firm, let’s say or not new, but new in terms of working with you, says, “How long is this going to take? You’re giving us a quote here. It’s going to cost $150,000. How many hours are you guys going to spend on this?” What’s your reply to that because you’re not basing your fees on hourly, which is great. You’re more focused on value in ROI. What’s your typical response to someone when that question comes up?

In most cases, that question doesn’t even come up because the stage has been set in a certain way that everybody understands the value that’s going to come. When we’re going through the deck, there is a transparent pricing slide, but I don’t even pull that up until we’ve talked about the pain points, understood their business, tailored the presentation, talked about the productized offering, and then we’re talking about the pricing. If it does come up, my answer is, “We’re building a recurring asset for you here. We don’t price based on time. In fact, in some engagements, we might think it takes 80 hours and end up taking 200 hours. It varies. It wouldn’t even be the truth for me to give you an exact number here but the whole thing that we’re trying to drive towards is objectives.

It’s management by objective. The objective here is we want to build a system to drive demand. For that, we need the data framework in place. We need to drive to demand gen. We need to set a content roadmap and make recommendations on the budget. Those are the outputs that you get. That’s how you measure whether or not you got the value back, not the time. You can get plenty of people to work for you for more hours, but the number of outputs that we’re giving out, you’re not going to get that. That’s how we position it.

Let’s talk now about how you’ve been building your business, how you went about getting clients. You started a consulting business when you left your previous company with a role as a CMO. What did you do right away to get the first couple of clients in the door?

The first few sales are directly to my personal network. People that had seen me speak, people that we had pitched selling Wild Apricot to the quality of my work. We got a bunch of clients that way.

That sounds like a bit high-level. You made it happen and then onto the next month. What did you do? Did you pick up the phone and call these people? Do you send them an email and say, “I’ve left Wild Apricot and I’m now doing this?” Walk us through what you did to win those projects.

A lot of what I described in terms of the productization, market understanding, the dynamics and the validation, that work I did before I started doing my outreach. Step two was building a list of people in my personal network to whom I could message that offering out. When I first messaged people back, then, it wasn’t as fleshed out as it is now, like a full sales deck and the website. It was an email to say, “Person, X, I left Wild Apricot to start my own thing. Here’s what I have in mind. I want to work with companies at this stage. Here’s what I think I can help them with. Here’s what output would look like. Is this of interest? If yes, let’s jump on a call.” Going from there and then because people saw the value there, they would connect me with the company and we go through that same pitch conversation.

What was the response like when you sent those emails out? How many emails would you say that you sent out in total?

About 40 to 50, initially.

What was the response? How many people do you think would you say responded back?

Every person in my personal network responded. This might be important for the audience of the episode here, I started building this business in a weird way in 2016. How To SaaS started as a podcast in 2016 where I would interview people for content sake. I was putting it out into the universe and that ended up building a lot of connections. Anytime any startup needed help, I would give them free advice. Anytime there was a networking event, or I met somebody, I would make an effort to chat with them after. Over time, I had this huge Rolodex of people who are real legitimate relationships, not just like a lead or a business card of somebody that I had. That is where the conversion rate on that was significantly higher where people were willing to invest in me because we had invested into each other’s relationship multiple times over. It seems easier than it is, but it took a couple of years to get there.

That’s what you did is you activated the network and that got you your first few clients. Walk us through. I know you have ten or so steps. In terms of the steps that you’ve taken to build your business from $0 to about $2 million, what are those principles? What are some of those best practices that you think have made the biggest difference for your company?

We’ve touched on some of them, but I’ll continue with where you said, “What happened after you got your first few clients?” When we got our first couple of clients, one of the big things was receiving customer feedback because I had some thoughts on what would be productized, but not entirely. As we had our first few engagements, our customers or clients would tell us, “I need this from this engagement. Can you add this to the statement of work?” We would go through certain steps in the engagement and there would be an output like a presentation that was created or a spreadsheet. It would be like, “We can templatize this. We can do this for more than one client.” You start to piece together, based on customer feedback what the productized solution looks like.

Once that’s created, then you can put in a fancy sales deck and send it out to more people. That’s one piece. It’s leveraging customer feedback to improve product development. We almost market our consulting services the way we would market a SaaS company for a client of ours because the go-to-market is almost identical. It’s a professional services engagement, but we think of it like that. Productization our pricing scale is the way you would on a SaaS companies pricing page as well.

Can you take us through when you talk about the marketing piece of how you market your company and also how you help others to market because it is a similar go-to-market strategy. What does that look like? If you’re talking, let’s say, to someone who is running a professional services firm, whether it was a PE firm or a law firm or a consulting firm or even a firm like your own, what are some of the steps that you think would be most important for them to take to start building a pipeline, generate more conversations and attract more of the right people?

Step one is defining your ideal customer profile and who is the ideal type of person that would buy this product or service from you. Those should have characteristics, some type of demographics, psychographics, company science, whatever that is understanding that very clearly, and what offer you are going to present them with. Step two is mapping the market. This is a step a lot of people skip. For us, for example, as a private equity firm, one of the first things we did is we mapped every private equity firm in North America. We have every firm’s website, all the people who work there, all their email addresses and everything. All of that is uploaded into our HubSpot. We invested in HubSpot the way a SaaS company would when we were a two-person consultancy. We uploaded all of them in there.

Step three is based on that total addressable market is building a go-to-market against that. I have one salesperson, full-time, reaching out to private equity firms and SaaS companies every day. Every time a company is acquired, we email the investors and we say, “Congrats on the acquisition. I notice you bought company X, Y, Z. We briefly looked into the marketing potential here. There are 3 to 4 things we can see right off the bat that we can do here. Let us know if you want to have a conversation.” That’s the type of email that you would send if you are a B2B SaaS company. We’re doing that for a consulting service.

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Is your sole salesperson in charge of doing that? Is that what they’re doing all day, every day?

All day every day, that’s their job. I’m the closer to those conversations. I’m the account executive, but I would say the plan is to remove me from that process entirely.

Is the vast majority of what your salesperson is doing all email or are there also phone calls or video messages? What does that look like from a tactical perspective?

It’s all email. From time to time, they will look into the company and send specific data points for the company, but pretty much all email.

A dedicated salesperson is getting the pipeline moving for you, then jump on and take them through presentation and all that kind of stuff. What else would you say has made a big difference?

That’s one channel. Channel two is events. In the last few months, there haven’t been any events except virtual ones. We mapped up all the conferences that private equity for people and SaaS executives would go. We messaged them to speak at those conferences. We ended up speaking to a bunch before COVID started, so that helped and drove the pipeline from there as well for us. We speak at about 2 to 3 events a quarter. The third is paid media. We run LinkedIn Ads. We’re spending about $10,000 to $20,000 a month on LinkedIn advertising targeting specifically private equity executives and CEOs of SaaS companies, driving them to a demo form. My salesperson, almost like an inside sales rep, handles those conversations and then I get pulled in depending on the quality of leads.

Can you walk us through when someone clicks on that ad? What is that ad offering? What is the call to action on that ad specifically?

The ad is a piece of content, usually something that’s more native to the platform. It says, “If you want to solve a problem like this, schedule a demo with us. Click here.”

Is that on the landing page itself or in the ad?

In the ad.

That ad itself is a content-based ad and then the call to action inside the ad itself is, “If this resonates, if you’d like to chat about something similar, go here.” They go to a page. What does that page have on it? You’re not targeting the typical internet marketing person who’s buying like an eBook here or a course there. You’re targeting a seasoned, savvy executive, which is what most of the readers on this show and in our community are also focused on is people in organizations. It might be nonprofit or for-profit, big or small, but they’re still B2B buyers. What do you have on that form that’s getting that person to fill it in and get in touch? What does that page look like?

People can check it out, but it speaks in their language. You won’t see things like, “Hire us and we’ll do Google advertising for you.” It’s nowhere in there. It’s more like, “Increase the enterprise value of your investments. Here are case studies of private equity firms or their portfolio companies that we’ve worked with.” There’s a video of me speaking at a conference for private equity investors that’s right on the middle of the homepage and then lots of examples. There’s a bunch of data as well on the private equity market and the SaaS market that it’s almost like it’s an educational presentation that they’re reading as they’re scrolling through this page.

You’re sending people to the homepage of your website. It’s not to a dedicated landing page that you’ve orchestrated. Why do that? A lot of people have heard or believe that you need to send somebody to a dedicated landing page with not many options of navigation and you want to keep control of the flow and, at the end, a very intentional call to action or book a timed call? Any feedback or reasons for doing it the way that you’re doing it? I’m saying to the homepage.

These kinds of tactical marketing things, we don’t think about at all, because things like button color and all that stuff, it’s purely like you have a customer, they have a clear and defined problem. Speak to that pain, tell them how you can solve that pain and conversions will increase. If your targeting on your advertising is correct, it will work. In fact, having things like my podcast at the top, I’m working on a book and that’s going to be the navigation. All of that only builds authority by keeping them on this airtight landing page. I never get to show any of that other stuff. People clicking around at page depth on visits is a better thing. We want more of that.

Are there any other big insights or experiences that you think are important for the consultants and consultant firm owners that are reading?

There are few others I would want it to cover. One is on the flywheel side. Knowing what are the different drivers of your business. For us, we look at four things. First is thought leadership and authority in the market. Two is building deep relationships with the market. The third is targeted sales and fourth is client success. The way we look at that is anytime we invest in any one of those four pillars, the flywheel keeps turning, the engine gets stronger, and we end up closing more and more deals. That’s why we have a podcast, why we invest in the book, why we write LinkedIn posts. Organically, we’ll get reach. It’s the same reason why we build relationships and have targeted sales and have a rep to reach out to those people. I think knowing that flywheel piece is super important.

The one thing that we’ve been focusing on a lot is winning on brand. The more content you put out there and the more affinity you build within a market, the sales should almost happen before the person jumps on a demo with you. More and more were publishing content to be able to get there. Every day, I’m posting a daily piece of content, but beyond that, building more authority pieces that can be leveraged for demand gen campaigns like LinkedIn Ads and then have nurture streams behind that or run a weekly webinar to get people more in love with the brand. When it comes time to buy, when they jump on a sales call, price is irrelevant at that point. That’s a very important thing that we’re focusing on.

Clearly, you have a lot going on. You’re pumping out a lot of content, which helps. You’re building that authority, as you mentioned, to help with pricing and all that. A lot of consultants have a challenge with that. They have so much going on that they feel it’s hard for them to spend the time to create the content. Any tips, mindsets, or anything that you use or habits that allows you to still crank out lots of content, but do everything else that you’re required to do in terms of working with clients and building the business?

This was a challenge for me when I was a one-person shop. As we were able to scale, it became easier. Now, I have a part-time person on staff constantly producing blog content for me. I personally bridled posts that go on LinkedIn. I use my iPad and I do something quickly. I spend about fifteen minutes every morning creating that piece of content. The one tip that I’d say is essential is having the right business model and the right margins on engagements so that you can fund future content production. For example, with the book that I’m writing, I’m writing it, but I have hired a firm to help me publish it and get it out there. For content that we create on the blog, I was able to hire a freelancer because we have a margin on engagements that can be leveraged.

CSP 181 | Consulting Revenue

 

Consultants that struggled with this problem are not able to hire enough people to help them. People will always be one of your biggest leverage points. That was going to be one of my last things is building the right team around you so that the consulting is not just like a one-man shop that you’re at the mercy of your clients at that point, because they’re all pulling you in different directions with your time. How do you build the right business model and the right productization to be able to find that extra funding to build and grow the business so that you’re not always in the business, you are working on the business.

There’s much more that we can dive into, Shiv. We’ll have to look at continuing that conversation. For now, I want to thank you so much for coming on and sharing some of your stories. I want to make sure that people can learn more about you and your company and check out everything that you guys have going on. Where’s the best place for people to go?

They can check us out on our website, www.HowToSaaS.com or they can follow me on LinkedIn at Shiv Narayanan.

Shiv, thank you so much for coming on.

 

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